Question:
Side effects of Deudenol Switch
I have been considering having a DS but have heard such horror stories I'm scared. Can some DS's tell me Is it true that you have bad gas, loose stools, an odor, and gray coloring. And if so, does it last forever? I think I could probably deal with everything but the gray skin coloring and body odor. I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings I just don't know how to ask any other way. — [Anonymous] (posted on July 28, 2001)
July 28, 2001
You think you could probably deal with everything but the gray skin
coloring and body odor.. What about Malabsorption syndromes: here is a link
to check out what malabsorption can and does cause
http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section3/chapter30/30a.htm
— [Anonymous]
July 28, 2001
The only thing I experience is acne-like when I was in 7th grade. Trust me
it wasn't any fun then either. However, I'll take pimples over the weight
any day. On occasion I may have gas and rarely diarrhea(depends if I ate
too fatty of food, I also don't have a gallbladder to help the breakdown of
fats)However, that happened preop too. I usually had gas if I needed to
have a BM. nothings changed. The gas isn't any worse. Maybe on the rare
occasion but..... I think in almost 4 months not including the hospital I
may have had 2 bouts with diarrhea if that. So, for me this isn't an issue.
My skin is healthy looking and people are amazed. There are 5 of us in town
who have had a WLS and I'm the only DS. I know all but 1. Everyone I know
tells me how much better I look. One guy looks sick-sallow,gray skin and
everything. He had the open RNY! He can't eat but a few crackers and
soup-his surgery was Oct. However, he says he's thrilled with the weight
loss. I can eat everything and anything and I need to be careful. I have my
labs drawn and will know the safe ranges so not to depend on anyone if
there's a problem. I take 1 flintstone 3xday,1 ADEK 3x day and I calcium 3x
day. I don't think the malabsorbtion is a big issue-for me. However, that
can change and that was a risk I was willing to take. My body dsn't react
as I've read so many RNY's do because mostly everythings intact-the pyloric
valve,duodendum and all. Not all of us have horror stories. I definetly
want to encourage you to talk to more patients about their personal
experiences. Before my surgery I spoke with no less than 2 dozen DS
patients alone. Only 1 had problems. I know more now that don't have
complications/issues either. Any further questions please don't hesitate to
ask.
Open BPD/DS on 4-11
down 55 lbs and 26 1/2"
— Linda M.
July 28, 2001
I don't know where you are hearing these horror stories but they are simply
not true. You will have malabsortion with either the RNY or DS. You take
supplements for the rest of your life and it's a non-issue. I don't have
any more gas than I did pre-op. My BM's are looser, but that's okay. My
skin looks fine, check out my profile. I have lost 80 lbs in 4 months with
relative ease.
— Tracy P.
July 28, 2001
I had the DS and am very happy with it. I would do it again in a second. I
sometimes have loose stools if I eat alot of fatty foods, and it smells
like Sh*t just like everyone elses, nothing a little spritz of air
freshener won't take care of! I do not however, break out into a sweat or
get cramps (dumping) I have full control and do not have to scope out a
bathroom each time I go to a public place. I have not met any of my DS
peers that have grey skin. I can eat a somewhat normal meal, as my stomach
is zucchinni size, rather than thumb size. Of course everyone is different,
and of course everyone is partial to their surgery. I chose the DS because
from the information I have obtained, chances of keeping the weight off are
better. In my support group I am seeing several RNYers attempting to get a
revision to DS, which is a very difficult procedure to do from what I
understand. Both surgeries can be successful. I don't think one is better
than the other. It depends on you, and what your needs are. If you are an
avid sweet eater, RNY may be the best route for you because your body will
not tolerate a lot of sugar. If you are a high fat eater, DS may work
better for you, as the fat is mal absorbed. I am able to eat sweets in
moderation without it hindering my weight loss, but never had a sweet tooth
to begin with, so it was never a real issue for me. I hope this helps
somewhat. You can check out more about DS at www.duodenalswitch.com.
— [Anonymous]
July 28, 2001
7-29-01 This is such a frequent question asked on this site. Go to the
library and you can read so many responses already given to this query. But
I will give my own 2 cents now (and again) so as to help you and others.
The horror stories you have heard have probably been propagated by people
who have not had the DS, know noone personally who have had the DS, have a
vested interest in performing the RNY, are confused about the DS and
haven't done any research into the modern BPD-DS, or are just plain studid
and dangerous. The DS is not experimental, it has been offered for many
years and most patients and doctors report wonderful success with few
problems. It may help you to realize that the big difference and the only
diference between the DS and the Distal RNY is the upper (stomach) portion
of the operation. The intestinal reconfiguration and reconnection is pretty
much similar in the Distal RNY and the DS. (with the exception of the
duodenum intact in the DS and not in use in the RNY) Both of these
operations rely on malabsorption to effect the weight loss and so why don't
we all just decry the RNY as a dangerous surgery, too? Oh, I guess that is
because people are more willing to accept the explanations for
malabsorption as long as it is associated with a RNY but align
malabsorption with the DS and you are going to suffer, smell, discolor, and
generally walk around like Charlie Brown's Pig Pen in a never ending search
for a bathroom nearby!!! I know that if you read about people who have had
any distal proceedure, like Michelle Curran, Vitalady, who is well
respected here on AMOS (because she is so well informed) she has a distal
RNY and takes vitamins and supplements every day and in massive quantities.
(In all fairness, too, she needs to take extra nutrients because with the
RNY-Distal she does not have a stomach to function in food digestion nor
does she have the duodenum in her food track to help with the absorption of
calcium and other nutrients as does the DS patient, but she advocates
supplimentatin for DSers due to the malabsorption-I agree, too, to a point)
But taking vitamins, calcium, iron, or eating protein first and in
sufficient quantities is usually all that is necessary to maintain good
health with the DS. As far as turning color, I truly have not heard of this
other than people who just look pallid due to illness or other conditions.
Remember that just because a person has had WLS that does not mean that
everything experienced is caused by the surgery. That would be like saying
that everything that was wrong with us preop was because we were fat, from
diabetes to ingrown toe nails (sound familiar?) Also to address your
concerns about bowel movements and gas, yes, there are usually more
frequent bowel movements and gas with the DS and any Distal RNY because
they are designed to malabsorb, they are supposed to pass undigested,
unused food so that the body doesn't take it in and make us stay fat or put
on weight and if that is yur concern do not have any distal proceedure and
definately do not take Xenical) That is is component of the Distal RNY and
DS that has been studied and adjusted over time to effect the greatest
weight loss with the minimal side effects. Prior DS and Distal RNY
surgeries had a common channel of 50 cm. and there were many instances of
diarrhea, frequent loose or soft stools, and gas and other problems related
to malabsorption. So the doctors and scientists, after publishing data and
as modern technology and practices advanced, have found that increasing the
common channel to 100 cm, in effect doubling the length, have virtually
eliminated the former problems (pardon the pun) and yet have still seen
tremendous weight loss, like having the good without the bad intestinally.
This is all a part of the modernization and evolution of surgical treatment
of obesity and this entire intestinal component is to be studied and
considered when making a choice for surgery. Many doctors who recoil at the
thought of the DS will operate and create a Distal RNY and so have
basically created a DS (type) intestinal track and then there are many
doctors who would never construct a distal or medial RNY due to concerns
about deficiencies and so only do proximal reconnections. That is the
doctor's choice and may not be yours, but people have lost tremendous
amounts of weight with Proximal RNY and with Distal RNY and with BPD-DS.
Sometimes it feels like a witch hunt out there in WLS-land due to people's
destructive misinformation. A chief offender, unfortunately, is the ASBS
site and NIH sites, which both have very old information about the BPD
which is virtually never, ever done anymore, and so little, about the
BPD-DS (information is so old about this different operation, the BPD-DS is
not the BPD, get that right) which is the modern operation which is the
Gold Standard in this surgery class, and make no mistake the DS is not the
same thing as the BPD and that is where misguided souls are so dangerous.
To say that you will have all these problems with malabsorption is just not
fair. Would people on this list tolerate the constant misinformation about
the RNY or VBG? We have seen that they will not and are constantly
defending those operations. It is not a matter of defending and going to
war over the different operations, it is about getting accurate, realistic
information out there and a person truly doing all the research into every
type of option. I know many, many RNY people, proximal, medial, distal,
transected, not transected, BPD-DS with 50 cm. common channel, 75 cm.
common channel, 100 cm. comon channel, and everyone experiences different
things. I think to listen to the scare tactics and what not is too bad.
That is like accepting all of the hideous misinformation about WLS in
general. We have all heard about how this surgery won't work, how this
surgery will kill us, how this surgery will prevent us from ever eating
more than a thumbful of food, and on and on it goes. And we know that all
of that isn't true, that those people are ignorant and referencing what
happened 25, 30 years ago. WLS has come so far, just like heart surgery,
limb reattachments, or cancer treatments, and modern medicine is constantly
retooling and modifying treatments and methods to have the best outcomes
with the minimal risks and side effecdts. Please, do not only go by what
"they" say. Go to the source and get accurate, current research.
It is a pity that so many people say they have thoroughly researched WLS
and then can't tell you anything about the DS, saying well, that's not the
operation I had. Your point? You said you did research into WLS, well,
maybe not. Be aware that the DS is a great operation but not readily
available in most of the country so that may limit your options but it
doesn't limit the availability of information. Lest anyone feel the need to
rant and rave about all of this, I will tell you that I had a Lap BPD-DS on
January 6, 2000 (weighed 375 pounds) and I personally have experienced
significant loose stools, gas and diarrhea. (I also have diverticulosis pre
op so was more predisposed to possible problems)Dietary modifications will
sometimes help this situation (gee, just like the RNY have to make dietary
modifications regarding sugars and sweets) but over all I look just fine,
never looked better in my life, (could that be because I lost 210 pounds,
all the comorbidities, and wear a size 14) and whatever adjustments I
needed to make regarding my bowel movements I have adapted to. Same with
all the adaptations I had to make regarding the supplements I need to take.
like less of them. like no more diabetes medication, no more hypertension
medication, mo more antidepressants, no more diuretics, no more pain
medicine, no more cPap, no more anything than before. Just the vitamins and
their variations (iron, calcium, etc.) Of course there are people with
situations that are individually considered, exceptions to the norm, that
is why research documents all events, and why you need to see what is an
acceptable risk to you, (for me diarrhea wasn't a risk, it was already a
frequent part of my life anyway) but to label one operation with false
accusations is wrong and I hope that you will carefully consider what I
have written, at length!!! :-)
— Fran B.
July 29, 2001
At almost 2 years postop Open DS, I always get a chuckle out of questions
like this. Once you do more research, go to DS support groups where you
can see postop DS'ers first hand, you will get the same chuckle! Fran said
it best. These rumors are based on uninformed/misinformed people like the
anonymous poster below. The DS does not cause Malabsorption Syndrome.
This is exactly how incorrect information gets started. The DS has a
malabsorption aspect to the procedure meaning, you will not absorb a
certain percentage of calories and nutrients. The nutrient part is
compensated, in my case, by taking a daily multivitamin and a couple of
Viactiv every day. That's all there is to it. If you are commited to the
surgery and compliant with taking your vitamin every day, there will be no
nutritional deficiency, only weight loss, and more importantly, NO WEIGHT
REGAIN! RNY patients also have to take daily suppliments, in larger
quantities, from what I understand, including iron & some of the B
vitamins. The gray coloring....now that's a new one....For over 2 years
I've asccociated with postop DS'ers and their skin in not gray.
Personally, my skin has never looked better. Preop now, that's a different
story!! My skin was horrible! You're just in the beginning stages of
research, like Fran says, go to the source: http://www.duodenalswitch.com.
There you can see, not only the clinical published reports and get the
straight facts, but you can see over 100 DS patient profiles... Look at
their before & afters. You're doing great asking these questions!
Keep researching...you'll find the facts...Good luck to you!
http://www.mywls.com/discus
— [Deactivated Member]
July 29, 2001
I am the original poster of this question. I want to thank everyone for
answering and I wanted to let a few people who commented on my question
know that the horror stories I have heard were from the doctor I was
considering for my RNY. After reading Fran's comment, just as I realized
when he was telling me, he has a vested interest since RNY is the only
procedure he does. (Although he does distal as well as proximal) So I will
take your advice and continue to do my research. And yes, I have done quite
a bit of research on the RNY, but have not on the DS. I couldn't find a lot
of information on the list because not every category has questions. I also
consider asking questions in this group part of my research.
— [Anonymous]
April 29, 2002
Doing all the research that I,ve done, The real question should be distal,
medial, or proximal. The D/S is great in that you retain a functional
stomach that predigests food before entering the intestines. There is no
trouble with blockages with the D/S. The trouble with gas and loose stools
should be less with the D/S than with a Distal RNY because of the
predigestion done in the stomach also vitamin absorbtion should be a little
better. but when you compare a D/S with a proximal RNY the gas and stool
problems are a little worse with the D/S. The D/S does have a better
success rate with weight loss and maintaining the loss. Both are better by
far then Jenny Craig....lol
— Mark L.
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