Just want to know Calorie, carb, sugar, fat info. Venting about my Nut!

I can’t seem to get a straight answer from my dietician and it is frustrating! I make a homemade granola for my husband to have at work. I decided to try it one day myself and discovered that I liked it as well. When I showed the nutritional stats to my dietician she told me it was okay in moderation and that it had too many carbs.   I then sent her an email to ask what numbers we should be looking for. How many carbs a day, calories, sodium level, sugars, fat grams, etc.   Her response? Direct quote:       “Also, we don't really recommend a particular number or amount of the other nutrients because honestly, if you are getting the protein you need every day and are continuing to lose or maintain your weight with good labs, it's FINE!!!  I don't like to give calorie levels either because patients tend to obsess about them and record EVERYTHING and it perpetuates "dieting mentality".  MOST patients eat less than 1000 calories a day the first 6 months to a year but everyone is different."  
(guess she didn't notice that my labs showed me deficient in A and D - and that my losing has slowed down quite a bit with lots of stalls)
  My response to her was that it’s not a diet mentality for me… it’s putting me in control. Somewhere I should have been long ago. Plus I would like to know the numbers and keep an eye on that when I make decisions. Since she didn’t want to give me the numbers I then asked if the numbers were the same for RNY patients as “normal" people. This is the response I received from that question:             “I just don't want you to get all bogged down in the numbers. The daily intake recommendations are NOT the same for Gastric Bypass surgery patients and there are no standard recommendations for intake for any weight loss surgery diet . The RDI's (recommended daily Intakes ) for Americans are actually done to prevent nutrient deficiencies in MOST of the population.  You can look them up for reference but even the "experts" can't define exactly what numbers work....they are intentionally high to prevent deficiencies. Nutrition is truly NOT an exact science and is ever changing which makes it challenging for patients and experts alike!"   Should it be this hard to get the numbers we should keep an eye on? If our recommendations are not the same for someone who did not have surgery, then shouldn’t she be the one to share with me what those numbers should be?   She also told me:           “I would be VERY cautious about what you read on any support group site also    (incuding ours)!   Okay, so the numbers aren’t the same that is recommended, she doesn’t want to share what they should be and she warns me about getting numbers from support group sites. Can someone tell me then just where the heck I’m supposed to find these numbers then? Grrrrrr.

Okay, I just had to vent for a moment. :)

So, does your NUT tell you what numbers you should look at?

 We must have the same doctor - even though I live in Texas!  I tried for months to get a definite answer to all of your questions.  No luck.  I am 2.5 years out and have settled on 1200 to 1400 calories, try to keep sugar less than 7 per serving, and get 60+ protein daily.  That's as good as I get.  I personally don't count fat or carbs but I don't eat white carbs (very few carbs except fruit and vegetables) and don't use any fats to cook with except the occasional olive oil. I log daily and get feedback regarding nutritional info.  If I prepare a recipe, I can enter it and the program will give me the stats for that food.  It allows me to set my "desired" ratio of fats, protein, and carbs.  I have to change it to 30,40,and 30 which is different than the average non WLS poster. The site also keeps track of exercise calories and adjusts your eating calories to reflex those.  If you would like to look at this site it is nutrimirror.com.  I guess the doctors feel that we need to look at what "works" for us.  Maybe others have more specific directions.  I will be glad to read them.

My program says to keep under 800 calories a day while losing, carbs under 40 g and fat under 30 g while getting at least 70-90 g of protein. They say that by a year out, most people are in the 1000-1200 calorie range. Then they modify their recommendations based on your individual cir****tances. (For example, I'm supposed to get at least 120 g of protein a day and I'd die with so few calories.)

I think your NUT is right in general, but that doesn't mean she can't give you some more specific recommendations based on what you are doing and what does and doesn't work for you so far.

One thing I did once I got to goal was to experiment to see what calorie level I needed to be at and not lose but not gain either. I track everything that goes in my mouth and that helps too.

Based on that I've figured out that 1600-1700 calories is what I burn most days with no exercise and that, with exercise, it can go as high as 3000 calories depending on what I do. I don't try to eat exactly what I burn each day but I want to be in the ballpark and I want it to balance out over the course of a couple of days.

For carbs, I try to keep them under 200 g on days I'm not doing long endurance training, but 176 g seems to be my "sweet spot".

For protein, I have to get at least 125 g a day but 150 g would probably be better. Less than that means my hair starts to fall out.

But these are just my numbers. Everyone is different. The idea is that you have to figure out what your numbers are based on how your body reacts. Some people are more carb sensitive than others, for example. Some people need way more protein than normal, some get grumpy if their carbs go below a certain point, some get inappropriate cravings if they eat "too many" carbs. It's just going to depend.

It really is difficult to give "black and white" numbers.  Body build is different, height, age, heredity issues, years of yo-yo dieting with messed  up metabolism, pre op health issues, post op health issues, etc.

I keep reading, reading, reading to find out what is healthy.

I've been guilty of maniplating # of calories to stay within my calorie range but eat empty calories and unhealthy food - but I stayed within my calories!  It can be a game. I've done this in the past before RNY.  Who was I hurting??  ME.

I choose to get 100gm protein a day (lab levels are needed here).  I choose to stay under 80-100 gm carbs a day - these carbs come from dairy, protein powders, raw veggies, raw fruit and some whole grains.  You can play the game with carbs too - so I don't eat white flour, white sugar, white rice, pasta, junk food or fast food.

I choose to get in 120+ oz a day - because it helps with constipation (so does raw organic veggies and raw organic fruit).

I also choose 1100-1200 calories a day.  I don't eat processed food.  I have found over the last year that I can meet my requirements and it keeps me reading labels and making wise choices.

This is what works for me now.  As things change (I'm having plastic surgery), maybe my weight loss will stop, etc.  I will re-evaluate and revisit what I'm doing.  Also I take supplements and vitamins according to ASMBS and my lab values.  Also differs from person to person.

I know this isn't the answer you wanted, but you have to determine what is good for you for maximum health, energy & stamina.  Feed your body with the nutrients it needs to not age quickly, keep from disease.  It is work - but so worth it.

Best wishes.

Thanks for the replies. They've all been helpful.

I guess what just got to me was that she told me something had too many carbs, but then wouldn't tell me how many are too many!

I really haven't concentrated much on calories. I think I'm more worried about sodium, fat, sugars and carbs. I know that I don't eat very much for a calorie problem but would like to track the rest.

It just totally took me by surprise when she wouldn't tell me some base numbers. Even if they do vary with everyone there still should be some kind of base number that means you would have second thoughts about eating something due to the sodium level. Or sugar grams, etc.

Again, thanks everyone. :)

I understand your frustration ... how can she tell you in one breath that it has "too" many carbs, etc. but then NOT define what are good or bad numbers for carbs?  My NUT also does not like to give out #s for calories/carbs, etc.  Her take is focus on getting in the protein.  She added that sometimes if they give too much information, the patient doesn't concentrate their efforts on their protein intake.

I think most of us on this board are pretty intelligent and we can multi-task and actually not get overwhelmed with additional numbers thrown at us.  When I pushed her for an answer this is what she said at around the one year mark.  I would average around 800-1000 calories and I should target 80 grams of protein and I can have up to 125 grams of carbs.  If you keep a journal and weigh/measure your food you can then analyze what works for YOU. 

Neither my surgeon nor my nute gave me concrete guidelines except for the protein and water intake.  I track on sparkpeople.com and the program has a upper and lower level of various nutrients on the pages as you enter your meals.

I've found it to be very helpful.  There are others, which I don't know, but that one works for me!

Good luck!