Nutrition and working out

I've recently started working with a personal trainer and upping my exercise quite a bit. My trainer and I, of course, have very different ideas about what and how much I should be eating. While I intend to stay within my doctor's guidelines regardless of exercise, I want to make sure I am eating the right things at the right times to maximize my results. (FYI, guidelines are 600-800 calories, 70-75 grams protein - though I try for at least 80, and 40-60 grams carbs - I try for under 30, but I've been upping it just a little)

I've been doing a lot of research on what to eat when strength training, but most of it is tailored to people who are body builders, or even those trying to lose weight, but not obese folks who had WLS who are trying to lose fat and maintain muscle mass.

My trainer insists that eggs are the best thing to eat for breakfast, but, well, I don't care for eggs. He suggests oatmeal too, but the carbs make me nervous, I hate oatmeal, and I'd have to buy special, expensive gluten free oats due to my intolerance. I've been eating things like greek yogurt or meat for breakfast.

And then there is the issue of what to eat before a workout and after a workout. Some say protein and carbs before, some say protein and carbs after. It's so confusing. Are the carbs necessary? I'm finally at the point where I can eat enough protein to not require a shake, but I've been adding a shake for extra protein. But in order to meet my protein goal, there just isn't a lot of room in my diet for carbs.

So...how do you guys balance out your nutrition to optimize your workouts? Can you point me to any useful research, articles, etc. that apply to people in our situation? Thank you for your help!

I talked to my  Nut about this.  She advised me to keep my calories and carbs constant but to eat a protein meal right after weights.  Preferably within 20 min. of lifting.  That was the only change.  If you become a true athlete (work out more than two hours a day) increase calories and protein, otherwise, just follow your doctor's advice ( I agree with it, so I can tell you that without cringing).  :)

Thanks, Elina. Yes, if my doctor's plan deviated too much from your doctor's plan, I'd probably be following your doctor's plan :)

I can't provide all the help you're looking for except to say that you can bump the calories and carbs if you're working out.  You do not need to be as strict about the 600-800 calorie levels if you're burning a bunch of them during workouts.  You'll just need to evaluate (probably by trial and error) what level you can handle and do the workouts without collapsing.

My best guess is that you'll need to consider what carbs to use just before the workouts.  Something that can be converted to energy quickly.  I used to use orange juice for morning workouts but don't have much of a plan currently.

I just need to say that I firmly disagree with this approach. (always be strict about caloric and carb levels)

One should not even think about eating back calories/carbs during WL....... unless activity is at "athlete" level.....

"General" working out is expected in WL mode.

Keep it simple...... I see to many people over thinking and doing way to much math.

frisco

Trainers and a actually a lot of NUTs do not fully understand WLS or even the science behind what they are regurgitating from the latest textbook or fitness article. Bodybuilders are actually a good source of information for what works. They have very sensitive metabolisms like we do although they have likely never been as overweight as we might have been and they are very tuned in to how to lose weight and the best way to build muscle. Now the big difference between us and them is they can eat a lot more food than we can so when they eat a bunch of protein they can eat 2 to 4 chicken breasts to do it in addition to their protein shakes.

The calories they consume are far greater than we can even if we ate all day.

So the reasoning behind the increased carbs is that after a workout the carbs help to carry the protein into muscles to help with recovery. While this is very effective it does not take much and they need to be fast digesting carbs like fruit or unprocessed sugars. Body builders use carb for fuel. We do not. We use fat for fuel. But the logic for the protein into the muscles remains the same. For me the only time I eat these kind of carbs is after a workout and very quickly after a workout. Other than that the remainder of my meals are low carb or if I eat carbs they are slow digesting carbs like oatmeal, brown rice, or quinoa, something like that. Despite all the rhetoric on here a carb is not a carb, if they were they would be broken into simple carbs and complex carbs. The difference is that simple carbs quickly increase your blood sugar and cause and insulin response which causes your body to store body fat. Most complex carbs do not spike your blood sugar (because they digest slowly) and there for do not cause a dramatic insulin response and sends those carbs to replace glycogen (muscle fuel) and to burn as energy.

If you do not provide your muscles with adequate protein pre and post workout your body will get the protein it needs for recover from your muscles. Seems counterintuitive but this is the reasoning behind the protein needs. 

So all of that being said, here is what I would suggest you eat and when:

30-60 mins BEFORE your workout :

Protein Shake or Protein Bar (this should be a whey isolate or a hydrolized whey isolate).

30-60 mins AFTER your workout:

Meat, Eggs, or another protein shake (if I eat a shake before, I may eat a bar after), etc. and a small piece of fruit (berries, 1/2 apple, melon, 1/2 banana, etc. make sure these are fresh whole foods or frozen, nothing with syrup or from a can).

You said you do not like eggs, so maybe consider getting some egg white protein.

Stay within your guidelines I would say on your workout days stay closer to the 800 and really heavy workouts as much as 1000. I go to 1000 on the days I have 2 workouts.

Keith.....

That's cool that works for you and I do not disagree with your approach nor your research.......

But you just spewed off lot's of info that does not pertain to 98% of WLS patients...... (my opinion)

Keep it simple....learn.... understand......but don't start wig wagging...... stay consistent and not try everything you google....(again... my opinion)

frisco

This is something I have been doing for more than 6 months and have managed to increase my lean muscle by almost 10%.

So I would argue that it pertains to 100% of WLS patients who are trying to build muscle. Not everyone's approach is just to hit a number, its not just about losing fat. If someone is nothing but skin and bones they are no healthier than when they were fat and are susceptible to a whole different array of illnesses. This process isn't about losing every pound you can lose because some of it comes from muscle. This process is about becoming fit and healthy. 

You are right in your statement above that exercise is expected but when you go above walking for 30-60 mins per day you are adding additional stresses to your body that 600-800 calories per day may not adequate for. 

Now if someone reads this and thinks it applies to them because they walk for 15 mins in the morning and 15 mins in the evening they did not read my entire response.

I asked linzee to post this as a thread here so that she could get a variety of opinions and responses so she can evaluate for herself what she wants to do. I knew yours and Elina's responses would differ from mine and I wanted her to see that.

You would be surprised..... or not on what "us" fatties and former fatties "assume"........

Ever heard the term...... give them an inch and they take a mile?

This is soooo common with "us" as a group...... meaning food junkies and food....

Keith you are in "animal" mode right now and I cheer you on...... but I see and have seen a very real and potential "trap" that you could fall into.....

Do you have a plan for when your not working out like an "animal"...... are you ready to do that math and follow through.....?

That my friend is easier said than done.....

But, that is not even a fair question for you at this point cause you have to many unknowns in front of you......

frisco

Just like any type of "recovery" you take things one day at a time. My plan for now is to continue doing what I am doing. When that changes I will adjust the plan. You are right, plenty of unknowns ahead. The only difference between now and every day in the past is that I am more educated and experienced today than I was yesterday. I am not one of the people who claim to be addicted to food. I was just just as good an eater before as I was bad, i just ate bad often enough for 200 lbs to creap onto my body and I was terribly lazy. Will I be lazy again? perhaps. I have a challenge starting next week that I go back to a client that takes me 10 hours a day 50 miles from my home. I have had the pleasure of working from home for the past 6 months so we will see what happens then. Working out 2 times a day next week will be very difficult and servicing 65 hours worth of work on my plate with 2 hours a day in the car and still get adequate sleep.

So I guess the plan changes next week.